#190: Building Your Business From Connection w/ Jason Moss
What if building and growing a business could actually fill your energetic cup rather than...be the thing that drains you daily?
While today’s business world is saturated with formulas, blueprints, and conflicting advice—especially when it comes to marketing and revenue—I dive deep with Jason into what truly holds most entrepreneurs back and how building a business from connection over conversion will actually increase your impact and revenue.
Jason opens up to me about how his experience with illness sparked a spiritual awakening and shaped his approach to business. And we go on to explore the dance between structure and intuition, the importance of discernment in applying business advice, and how true magnetism and growth happen when you’re in alignment with your authentic self.
Jason Moss is a business mentor for grounded, growth-minded entrepreneurs who are ready to scale without losing themselves in the process. Creator of the CEO Freedom Formula, Jason helps six-figure coaches and service providers shift out of operator mode and into sustainable leadership with a business model that supports their life, not the other way around. With over 1,000 clients served and $500K+ annual revenue, Jason’s approach blends strategic depth with soulful clarity.
Whether you’re a seasoned entrepreneur, a conscious creator, or just beginning your journey, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and heartfelt reflection.
Listen in as Jason and I unpack what it really means to scale your business from the inside out and create success that actually feels good.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
The real barriers to success in business
Navigating the overwhelm of business and marketing advice
Building a magnetic and aligned brand
Connection over transaction
Moving from hard work to receiving with ease
Grappling with receiving and worthiness
05:58 Empowering Growth Mindsets
10:29 Authentic Marketing Transformation Talk
19:02 The Journey Amidst Overwhelming Advice
25:10 Healing Blocks
30:46 Actions Driven by Energy, Not Fear
31:49 Awareness of Fear-Driven Actions
46:07 Perception Gap in Service Professions
54:44 Head-Heart Balance Dance
01:01:40 Choosing Rest Over Restlessness
01:08:23 Inner Change Reflects Outer Success
Read the Full Transcript
Barsi [00:00:37]:
I want to start today by saying that the world of business and marketing is noisier than it's ever been, thanks to all of the ways we now communicate. In particular social media, where the templates, the rules, the formulas, the blueprints, many of which are conflicting, are coming at you non stop stop. If you follow any coaches or entrepreneurs or digital marketers or business related accounts and topics. I see this particularly when it comes to two big categories which are marketing and revenue. This is also true when it comes to podcasting and the right and wrong way of creating and growing a show.
Barsi [00:01:48]:
But here's the thing. Number one, there are very few things that have a right and wrong way of approaching something. Most things are much more nuanced than that. Secondly, we now have to really discern whether what you're seeing actually applies to you. It's very easy to see a digital marketing strategy, let's say, and for the sake of this example, let's say you have a digital product like a course or a membership or an ebook or podcast. So whatever those who have successful digital online businesses are doing must apply to you. But that's not necessarily true. Do you share their same goals? Does their approach feel good to you? When it comes to your energy and core values, do your customers spend time in the same places doing the same things and have the same values as theirs do? Do you care about the same things and values as this marketer? When you're able to turn down the noise and get really honest with yourself and check in with yourself about what is true, then it will be a little easier to discern which approach might be worth trying. It's less about am I doing it wrong? And more about does this approach meet. Me where I am and get me.
Barsi [00:03:08]:
Closer to where I want to go? That first part is really important. Does this approach meet me where I am? Because if you don't have the right resources, let's say to execute on someone's strategy, meaning the time, the money, the energy, and the alignment. And yes, I'm calling alignment a resource, then it's gonna be tough to execute. And most likely it will also reinforce any beliefs that you might have around why things don't work for you. So, for example, if you listen to episode 161, the secret to Building a Magnetic Brand, on this podcast, you may have heard Megan Falcoff, one of my guests, share that she was struggling with some of this advice that she was seeing constantly on social media about how you shouldn't be working within the operations of your business. You shouldn't be the one doing the work if you're the founder or the CEO. And she went on to say, but then does that mean you don't enjoy the work? Like, you're not trying to be in it? So you don't like it? What about doctors and et cetera? Right?
Barsi [00:04:10]:
And my answer to her was, well, that advice just doesn't apply to you, and that's okay, it doesn't have to. That structure is designed for a certain type of business, and it also belongs in a certain stage of a certain type of business. So the stronger your center of truth is about where you are on that journey and where you want to go, the less confusing or threatening advice that doesn't apply to you will feel, because you'll know that it's just not for you, it's not for your business. It will be much easier to recognize and to not internalize it as if you're doing something wrong in your business. I know this firsthand, so I'm sharing.
Barsi [00:04:52]:
It because it's a big reason why I'm very adamant about employing and cultivating your intuitive guidance when it comes to business and marketing. And that also includes creating a podcast. When you put yourself at the top of that hierarchy as the wisest guidance available to you, Then when you listen to this podcast or when you listen to something you see on social media, you can feel whether it's right for.
Barsi [00:05:19]:
You to explore, whether it's a fit. For your goals and values. That's the difference between receiving guidance and being told what to do. What is right and wrong when talking about strategy. And by the way, yes, there are best practices and there are step by step how to's that come with learning a skill or technology. For example, Sometimes there is just one best way to do something, but we want to really become discerning about the how, especially when it comes to strategy. So my guest today has an approach that really resonates with me and his marketing style is why I connected with him in the first place.
Barsi [00:05:58]:
He somehow ended up in my inbox and his emails are just these lovely reflections of his own process and how to come back to what's true when it comes to business and marketing. One that really resonated with me was when he shared about how our unconscious or deeper beliefs about our worth or our relationship to having more is what actually holds us back from growing our income as entrepreneurs. His name is Jason Moss and he is a mentor for coaches, consultants and service providers who are ready to scale with more clarity, ease and integrity. Through his signature method, the CEO Freedom Formula, he he helped six figure entrepreneurs release the operator role and build businesses rooted in trust, simplicity and true leadership. But his path started with grit. His first year brought in just $4,728 and a lot of lessons. And over time Jason refined a system for consistent growth without self sacrifice. That system became the CEO Freedom Formula and it's now the foundation for his client work and his message.
Barsi [00:07:06]:
Jason believes scaling doesn't require more effort, it requires more alignment. He brings a blend of structure and soul, helping entrepreneurs reconnect to their vision, simplify their backend and lead with confidence. He is passionate about helping others create growth. That actually feels good, which I love.
Barsi [00:07:25]:
I also just want to add that even though Jason works with six figure clients, the process and the mindset shifts he guides these clients with are just as applicable to any stage, even if that means before you've launched anything. Because it all comes back to our core beliefs and what we can let in. Whether that's a plateau we're stuck at or a transition we're trying to make. So here's my conversation with Jason Moss.
Barsi [00:07:57]:
Welcome Jason.
Jason Moss [00:07:58]:
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Christina.
Barsi [00:08:01]:
I'm so happy to have you and I will share a little secret because I found you through my inbox and I don't know how originally you ended up there. If it was through another person that I follow that I clicked on, but I really enjoy reading your emails and that's what I love so much about sort of spiritual entrepreneurs. Or those that lead from that heart centered place because everything you create kind of tends to speak from that place. And that's what resonated with me, which prompted me bringing you onto the show. So for anyone listening, you never know who might be the gem. So pay attention to who's in your inbox.
Jason Moss [00:08:43]:
Love that. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I appreciate you saying that and we can take whatever direction you want to go, but I think there's a big difference between creating content from a place of wanting to convert versus wanting to connect. And this has been a big shift for me more recently, really where I've started, pay a lot more attention to the energy that I bring to the content that I create. And I've noticed very different responses and showing up and communicating from that different energy. And so I get emails from beautiful people like you who want to connect and. And there's this deeper resonance thing that starts to happen when you're not showing up from that place of I need something from you or I'm trying to get something from you. But it's more here's my truth and here's what I'm being called to share and say in this moment.
Jason Moss [00:09:32]:
So it's a very different way of marketing and I appreciate you sharing that. It resonated for you and I'm glad that we are here and connected as a result of that.
Barsi [00:09:41]:
Yeah. Thank you. I bring it up because one like, to me those sparks are always so interesting because I prefer connection over anything. That's just sort of how I move through the world and conversion. Transactional things are a little more cerebral for me, a little harder to tap into. And in a world of business and marketing and entrepreneurship and content and all of that stuff that we're inundated with and told to do do on a regular basis, I like to kind of pull apart on this show. So anyone who's listening that is feeling like maybe they can like take the pressure valve, like turn that down a little and just speak from the heart. And this is a great example of that working.
Barsi [00:10:21]:
So that's kind of why I'm pointing it out for somebody who's listening. And you know, it does work. And here we are. So case in point.
Jason Moss [00:10:29]:
Totally. Yeah. I mean it works in a different way. It's very different from most of what conventional marketing says you need to do. And it was a big leap of faith for me letting go of a lot of those models and it's still been a practice for me and redefining how I want to show up and starting to trust my own authentic expression over feeling like I needed to fit myself into a box or a rigid formula or a way of communicating that never really felt right to me. So I think that so many entrepreneurs around the world are going through that same journey too, and they're wanting to find a way of showing up that feels more aligned and more authentic and more congruent with who they are. And I'm excited to have that conversation with you today and explore different ways that we might be able to help folks make that happen.
Barsi [00:11:16]:
Yeah, thank you for that. I feel that too. And a lot of our listeners are creators and empaths and fall into a category that I think resonates with this concept. But I want to take it back a little bit and talk about how you got onto this journey and how this part of yourself sort of became aligned and became part of the way you operate on a regular basis. So to me, it's a very internal approach to business. And like I said, I talk about that a lot on the show. And we really want to take into account that idea of alignment and aligning to who we really are. And that just sort of simplifies and makes everything much easier when we approach the action aspect to what we want to create, when we align that with our true selves.
Barsi [00:12:04]:
And you do that. Like, we just sort of talked about a little bit here, but this shift in this approach coming into this started from a life altering diagnosis for you. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Jason Moss [00:12:16]:
Yeah. So taking it back even further than that, I mean, I've always been an entrepreneur. I've been building businesses since I was 13. Was my first official online business. I built this computer program that made it so you could play your favorite computer games without putting in the cd. And so I spent the summer building this thing and I was so excited about it. And I shared online and I made my first sale online at 13. And I was totally hooked on this idea of how we can use these incredible tools, the Internet, to be able to create connections.
Jason Moss [00:12:46]:
And that has been a passion of mine ever since. And when I was in high school, I was a singer, songwriter, and I was building a platform on MySpace at the time and sharing my music with other people and playing shows, shows around my neighborhood. And coming to college, I studied music. And then my senior year, well, heading into my senior year of college at nyu, I got really sick. And this is like in the middle of the summer. I remember I was just feeling terrible. I was having like night sweats. And just waking up in the middle of the night, like, just drenched with sweat and just was feeling super off.
Jason Moss [00:13:20]:
This was going on for months. And like any 21 year old kid, I was like, I'm fine. You know, I'm probably just tired. And I didn't think that there was anything wrong with me. And I remember I actually was helping my sister. This was that summer she was moving into college. And so I flew out to Nashville to help her move into her new dorm with my family. And so we're all in this hotel together.
Jason Moss [00:13:44]:
And I woke up one morning and I was walking over the bathroom, and next thing I knew, I was laying in my mom's arms on the floor, and she caught me. I was in my mom's hands. I guess I had fainted. And she was terrified. She said, jason, the first thing you need to do when you go back to New York is go see a doctor. And I was like, mom, I'm fine. You know, nothing's wrong with me. So I go back to New York, I'm feeling super sick, and I end up in this hematologist's office, which, you know, anyone's listening, they don't know what that is.
Jason Moss [00:14:15]:
It's a blood doctor, hematologist, oncologist, they do both. And I meet with this doctor. It's September. I'm like, why am I inside? It's beautiful day outside. The last thing I want to do is be in this doctor's office. And this doctor comes in and she starts asking me lots of questions. She starts saying, you know, do you know anyone in your family who has had cancer? And I was like, no. And she puts her hands on my neck and she starts feeling my neck and she stops and she grabs my hand and she puts my hand on my neck, and she goes, do you feel this? And there was like a hard lump in my neck.
Jason Moss [00:14:49]:
And she said, this shouldn't be here. And she looked me in the eyes and she said, I think you have cancer. And I mean, I'll never forget what that felt like. It was like the most terrifying moment of my life, especially being alone there. You know, I wasn't with my family. I mean, it was just by myself in this doctor's office in Harlem. And over the next few weeks, I went through the whole medical process and found out that I had Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is a blood cancer, kind of like leukemia. And that really turned my whole world upside down.
Jason Moss [00:15:19]:
And really kicked off a several year journey of treatment and chemo and Radiation and relapse and bone marrow transplant. And I've been in remission now for. Actually I just celebrated 10 years, which is amazing. This is last month.
Barsi [00:15:35]:
Oh, my gosh. Congratulations.
Jason Moss [00:15:38]:
Thank you.
Barsi [00:15:38]:
Very worth celebrating.
Jason Moss [00:15:40]:
Yeah. It's been a journey. I mean, really, I could never explain all of it in a single episode. But to your question, which is okay, when did this whole spiritual thing come online for me? And when did I start thinking about business in a deeper way? All of it really started with that diagnosis. And after I finished treatment, none of my life felt like it made sense anymore. I just felt like I was on another track from the rest of the universe. I was this 20 something year old kid who had just experienced this crazy thing that felt like no one else could understand. And I was wrestling with my own mortality.
Jason Moss [00:16:19]:
And that led me to asking some deeper questions and really seeking and yearning for a way of understanding my place in the world, which up until that moment, I really didn't have a need for. And that really pushed me into my own spiritual journey. And we can talk more about that. But that has really opened up the door for my own perspective on life in a much deeper way. And it informs everything I do with business. It informs how I help other people grow businesses. It also informs how I lead in my own business. And for me, on the deepest level, my life is a spiritual journey.
Jason Moss [00:16:57]:
That's how I see it. It's I am this soul having this human experience. And how can I bring the deepest truth, the thing that I now feel connected to through all of that, to the day to day aspect of running my own business, to marketing, to selling, to leading, to having a conversation like this with you and being able to merge those two worlds together and bring the head and the heart into alignment and figuring out how to run a business in a way that honors my soul. These are the questions that I've been asking for the past 10 years. And I'm still on that journey of figuring out what that looks like. But I've learned so much along the way. It's the real reason I do what I do on the deepest level.
Barsi [00:17:43]:
Wow. Thank you for sharing that the way that you shared it. And there's so much space and I want to say, like, humbleness in your place, in where you are now with it, there's this idea of, of this unfolding that will just continue. And it just reminds me of like, what the journey really is like, which is this constant reveal of who we are underneath.
Jason Moss [00:18:07]:
Yeah. And the forgetting and the remembering and the forgetting and the remembering and the falling off the path and remembering it again. It's. It's a dance and it's not linear, and it's challenging. And I feel like I'm very much in that journey of discovery and exploration. I think it's tempting to come onto a podcast like this, and sometimes you hear folks, you know, speak from this. More of this sense of, okay, first I struggled, then I figured something out. Now I'm the expert.
Jason Moss [00:18:39]:
That's not how I see it.
Barsi [00:18:41]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:18:42]:
And I also think, from a business standpoint, I actually think I'm not a big believer in the idea of the expert. I don't think that's actually what people want. I think people want something real. They want to feel like there's a human being that they can connect to, that they can relate to, that is on that journey with them.
Barsi [00:19:00]:
I think we're in such a need. Of that right now as well, because we are inundated with quote, unquote rules, experts, how to's, and ways to approach something. And another guest was recently on the show and was sort of talking through something she was trying to figure out because of all of the messaging she was being inundated with, trying to figure out what her truth was amidst it all, because it wasn't aligning for her, the messaging that she was noticing. And my response to that was like, of course not, because that's for that person. Like, that worked for them. And that is okay. So I'm hearing just a lot of permission in being on a human journey, being on a soul journey, being on whatever journey that we're all on. And the ebb and flow is so true. And I'll share that.
Barsi [00:19:51]:
When I fall off the path, I'm very hard on myself. And it becomes really difficult to give myself as much grace as I would for someone else, or even talking to my listener on this show. And I think it's really important to have conversations like this so that we remember to give ourselves grace, so that we remember that even though we might have the tools, it doesn't mean they're always easy to find or easy to. Grasp or easy to pull in. And that there's always that with the layers that we pull away. It's not just good under there all the time. It's like more shit to go through. It's like more stuff to suss out.
Jason Moss [00:20:29]:
It's a lot of shit. Yeah, it's a lot of shit. I mean, even 10 years later, it's crazy. You know, the last few Months have been really heavy for me, in a good way, in a healing way. And I've been going through my own health journey over the past few months, and so much of the stuff from having cancer 10 years ago has come up again, and a lot of deep healing. And it's like you think you moved forward from something, and then it's. There's a whole nother layer to be able to excavate, and it. It is humbling.
Jason Moss [00:20:58]:
You use the word humbling. It's. It is humbling. So I try to stay humble. I'm definitely on the journey with everyone who's listening.
Barsi [00:21:06]:
Yeah. Did you say health journey?
Jason Moss [00:21:07]:
Is that health journey? Health journey? Yeah.
Barsi [00:21:11]:
Yeah. I have a quote pulled out for later, but you were talking about walking around your neighborhood. I'll just share what I'm saying here so we're not lost with the listener. But one of your newsletters shared that you were kind of allowing yourself to accept where you were and, like, what the space that you were in felt like somehow out of reach, but yet you were experiencing it, and it was the new home that you'd moved into or just the neighborhood. And I was like, wait, is that what you're talking about? Because that ties in, too, as this sort of, like, accepting the things that we bring in and giving ourselves grace to receive as well.
Jason Moss [00:21:49]:
Yeah, I think that's actually the thing. The way I see life is we have everything. Like, we've been given everything. And the only thing that is blocking me from the experience of that is my own story and my own separation from that.
Barsi [00:22:04]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:22:05]:
Like, imagine for a second, everything that you want, you already have. Whatever it is, more money, the partner, the home, the car, the love, whatever it is that you think you don't have that you want is actually already here. And so the question becomes, not how do I get it, but how do I experience it? Because it's not separate from me. And so we moved into this beautiful home here last year in Boulder, Colorado. I mean, the most expensive home I've ever lived in my life. Just as, like, dream home, such a beautiful space. And this journey for the past year for me has been actually opening to fully receive that. And so the story that I shared in this newsletter was being on this walk in this neighborhood that we now live in and experiencing the beauty of the surroundings.
Jason Moss [00:22:58]:
And we were in this. We're right up against the mountains, and it's just. It's stunning. It's really a beautiful space. And I'm walking through this neighborhood, and I notice my Mind saying, you don't deserve this. Like, I feel so separate from this. And it's fascinating. It's.
Jason Moss [00:23:12]:
It's really interesting to see that come up. And oftentimes, when I work with entrepreneurs, that's actually the thing that is blocking them from their next level of income or revenue. It's the capacity to expand in our ability to receive. It's not strategy. It's not. All of those things are secondary to the energetic underpinning of business, which is how do I flow with more, how do I hold more, how do I allow myself to receive more? And you could have the best strategy in the world, but if you're not ready to receive what that strategy is going to create for you, you'll find a way to block it.
Barsi [00:23:51]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:23:52]:
So for me, in that. In that moment, it was a practice of noticing that thought, noticing the story, being able to let go of that story. And then just for me, it was just telling myself a different story. It was like, of course, of course I deserve this because I'm here. This is a part of me. This is not separate from me. And I could experience that in my awareness. When I would tell that story, like before I was telling the story of separation, I felt like I was watching everything that was around me, almost like it was a movie on a screen.
Jason Moss [00:24:20]:
It felt like it was me. And then there was this thing happening in front of me that I was not a part of. And I used the analogy in the email. Like, is like being a kid at a party, like, hanging out by the punch bowl, being like, I wish I could talk to someone, but I feel like such an outsider. And as soon as I shifted that story, I noticed in my awareness, it felt like I merged into the experience. And suddenly I realized that I am all of this. That there is no separation between me and this beautiful neighborhood and this home. And it's all a part of me.
Jason Moss [00:24:53]:
And I think that journey of allowing ourselves to receive more on the deepest level is one of the things, and there are many. But this is one of the big things that I think for many entrepreneurs and folks who are building and growing businesses, that's the thing that ultimately creates real growth.
Barsi [00:25:10]:
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I definitely had a question formed around, like, what do you notice is one of the biggest blocks or the biggest things that people want or need to heal? Sometimes we don't know that that's what we want to heal, but that we need to work on is that part. And it's interesting because, you know, we just shared about sort of the ebb and flow of the process of getting into that level. And sometimes for me it can speak from my perspective of this journey of like, sometimes it's really easy and it comes and it's just, I can tap into that belief really quickly, really simply. And then other times it's like impossible. Like it just feels so difficult. And I resonated with that story because I had the same experience. We bought a home a couple years ago.
Barsi [00:25:59]:
It's the coolest place I could imagine. I did imagine it. That's super manifested, this place. And then when I got it, I was like, oh my God, what did I, what did I do? I don't know what to do with this. It came so easily, but it threw me off, which was an interesting experience I was not expecting. And, and I've been walking through trying to get back to believing that it's mine really threw me for a loop because it felt unaccounted for. Like I was like, whoa, no one told me this was going to happen.
Jason Moss [00:26:30]:
We don't talk about this, especially when it's easy, you know, I mean, most of us have a belief that we can receive, but we have to earn it.
Barsi [00:26:38]:
Yes.
Jason Moss [00:26:39]:
Or we have to work hard for it. Or like my dad growing up, my dad made a lot of money. Our family was wealthy, but he worked his ass off. He worked six days a week. I used to watch him every single day wake up at 4 o' clock in the morning to go to work. He worked at a bank. And subconsciously the narrative that I picked up from that was, I can make a lot of money, I can be quote unquote successful, but I have to work really hard to do it. So most of my twenties were spent working six days a week being successful, I mean externally, but also feeling like, man, this is really hard.
Jason Moss [00:27:15]:
And there's something magical that happens when you shift, when there's a belief shift from I earn what I receive to I'm allowed to receive just because of who I am. It's kind of like air. That's the way I see money. Yeah, like you don't have to earn air. It's free, it's here, it's all around us. Money is the same way. The only thing that stops us from the experience of ease around money is that most of us have this deeply conditioned set of beliefs and stories that say that okay, we can make money, but it's got to be hard. We got to do this, we got to do that.
Jason Moss [00:27:49]:
So it's the difference between making and receiving is actually a very important shift. The idea of making money, which is how most people view money or a house or whatever it is. It's like, I got to go get it. I got to go do something. There's this willful, effortful energy behind it versus I receive. I receive because I'm alive. Like, I breathe the air. I get to soak up the sunshine.
Jason Moss [00:28:14]:
When the energy starts shifting towards that, you can rest and relax into this place where things happen without a lot of that willfulness behind it.
Barsi [00:28:24]:
Thank you for framing it that way. You do a lovely job at bringing in such clarity around concepts that can feel confusing sometimes because it's energetic, because it's almost sounds like, well, that's just too easy. Like, does that. And then all of the. The narrative comes up, right? Like, well, does that mean I'm lazy? Does that mean I, you know, fill in all of the words here, like, for whatever those stories are. But then we come from these generations that really had to fight, you know, like, there was all these things going on that created their belief systems that they then passed down to us about, like, hard work and earning, and your value comes from giving back. But what about. You can't just give, give, give, give, give, right? Like, the receiving has to happen or else you die.
Barsi [00:29:10]:
Like, you deplete yourself into disease, into burnout, into not being able to give at all. And I've burnt myself out through this process, too, still recovering from it. And maybe that's where some of this falls into place for me personally, with the falling out of the ease of receiving and falling back into my default mode of. Of working hard to earn and not believing that I deserve what I did already receive. I live here like, it's going great, but for some reason, I still fight with myself internally about this all the time. So I'm bringing it up because it's. I wish someone was talking about it so that when I went through this, it wouldn't feel so foreign and confusing. So when you shared about it, I was like, okay, it's a real thing.
Barsi [00:29:55]:
It's not just me. And it happens in these places that I wasn't expecting. I'm used to it happening in business. I wasn't used to it happening in this way in my personal life. So that was interesting. And I share this because it really does come back to this concept of earning right, of being an entrepreneur, of having to put, quote, unquote, effort towards your business to bring in the clients to control the flow. Like, all of these things that are part of a business rhetoric. And I think the tricky part becomes, well, then, what do I do? Like, in a business? Well, then, what am I doing? Like, am I just waiting around? Like, I think we need some clarity around what that looks like to receive.
Jason Moss [00:30:36]:
It's a great question.
Barsi [00:30:37]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:30:38]:
Because sometimes in a conversation like this, it can sound like what I might be suggesting or what we might be talking about is passivity.
Barsi [00:30:46]:
Right.
Jason Moss [00:30:46]:
And my response to that would be, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, I do a lot in my business, but on a deeper level, I think what I have learned over time, and I am by no means a master at, but what I think, what has become clear to me over time is that it's really about understanding the energy behind the action and being able to discern in a moment and moment by moment, where my actions are actually coming from. Am I doing this thing because I feel like there's a hole that I'm trying to fill? Like, I'm about to do this launch? Am I doing it because I'm afraid that if I don't run this launch, then I'm not going to be able to cover overhead and we're going to have cash flow. Like, is this driven from fear? And oftentimes what's underneath that hustle grind mentality is a lot of lack and a lot of fear. I don't have something that I need, so I'm going to go out and post to try to get clients. Get, get, get. Even the word get, it's rooted in lack. Right.
Jason Moss [00:31:49]:
So we can start to develop awareness around what is driving us. And when that starts to happen, the first thing is, at least I think what most folks realize, and certainly this was for me, how much of the things that I was doing was actually rooted from this place of deficiency, from this place of fear, from this place of I'm not enough, from this place of I'm afraid that my needs aren't going to be met. I'm afraid that there's not going to be enough money, enough clients, not enough. So all of this is actually the underpinning of so many of the things that we do in business. And then we wonder why we have trouble and why people don't respond to the posts and why we can't attract clients and why it feels hard. It's because your energy is always speaking so much louder than the words that you use, the things that you say. It's the thing that everyone can feel even if they're not consciously aware of it. And so when you're Showing up in lack when it's like, I don't have a thing.
Jason Moss [00:32:49]:
And now I'm trying to do all these things because I'm trying to fill that hole. You broadcast lack. And then the universe, you know, if you believe in manifestation or the law of attraction or anything like that, and even if you don't, on a practical level, it's like, I haven't been single for a while, but, you know, do you remember when you would go out on dates and it sounds like you're. You're in a relationship now?
Barsi [00:33:09]:
Okay, but I do remember.
Jason Moss [00:33:12]:
Right? So you remember if you've ever been on a date with someone who really wants to be in a relationship?
Barsi [00:33:17]:
Oh, God, yes.
Jason Moss [00:33:18]:
Those are the worst dates, right?
Barsi [00:33:20]:
I used to attract a lot of that needy energy. Yes.
Jason Moss [00:33:23]:
Yeah. And you can feel it. You feel it. It's like the person who's, like, agreeing with everything you say and which is just, like, hanging on your every word. There's a desperation to it. And so I think that's the energetic underpinning to most of the way that most people operate in business. And I share this not from a place of judgment, because I still notice all these patterns in myself. There's no shame here.
Jason Moss [00:33:44]:
This is not like you're wrong if you've noticed those things. It's human. We have these nervous systems in these bodies that are. A part of us is designed to keep us safe. And so when we're unconscious, we tend to act from that place. And I think the move is, can we move from that place of lack to a place of all needs met, to a place of. I actually have everything I need right now. Even if it's not in my reality, if I'm not experiencing it, that doesn't mean it's not there.
Jason Moss [00:34:16]:
If it's a cloudy day, the sun's still there. It's just behind the clouds.
Barsi [00:34:20]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:34:21]:
So can I ground back into my own wholeness? Can I reconnect with the part of me, the deepest part of me, that knows that all of my needs are met, that I'm taking care of, that there's nothing that I need to do to try to fill this part of myself? And then from that place, what wants to happen through me, what wants to be created when I'm not trying to launch something because I'm afraid that if I don't launch it, I'm not going to make enough money. What wants to come through? What do I want to share? What do I feel inspired to give and to contribute? And so there's action in that. But it comes from a different energy, a completely different energy. And that is the energy that creates real magnetism in a business. It's the energy that attracts clients. It's the energy that will create abundance. It starts with really being able to develop that sense of awareness around what is driving you.
Barsi [00:35:20]:
Well said. Yes, the energetics are hard to ignore once you finally experience them that way and step into that level of awareness. And that I think is the first step for anyone who's wondering how to get started in this kind of process. Which brings me back to your story, which I. I want to tap into a little bit more about how this started to work its way into your own experience and awareness and starting to kind of notice those two things working and how they work in different, you know, areas of your life. Like when things feel really scarce or forced or like you have to do something about them or when you can't. And I think for me, in moments of surrender, they often bring me back to the energy of, you know, my presence in interesting ways. I'll share quickly that in 2019, when I was just kicking off my business, I was finally getting some momentum.
Barsi [00:36:16]:
I had two car accidents in both, both were concussion oriented and they totally threw me off in major ways and a very long lasting. And I still have to work with that to this day. But it really got me into the moment. I had to really deal with myself from moment to moment. And it was a whole different way of operating and it was a whole different way of giving myself. I was forced to give myself grace as really like it felt that way. I fought it for sure at first because it was against what I was used to doing, which was just making things happen regardless. And it begged me to do it a new way.
Barsi [00:36:58]:
And by the end of that year, I experienced so much gratitude for having that happen the way it did. And I created some cool things and we did a lot of, you know, beautiful collaborations that year. And I found a new way to work with myself and presence and gratitude were at the center of experiencing that. So that was interesting. But I share that because I think we, a lot of us have circumstances like that that pop in to our lives that we don't want to have to deal with. But there's always some kind of side that gives us something. And for me it was that's that moment of understanding how to become still. And I'm wondering, you went into remission and then you shared with me in a previous call that you kind of were in this, like Waiting pattern of like, okay, they tell you it's five years, and then maybe you're more in the clear or, you know, how does life continue when we're feeling like this? What's gonna happen? Hanging over all the time.
Barsi [00:38:01]:
And what was it in your life that kind of helped you pivot back to yourself and finding that awareness and. And getting into a new pattern?
Jason Moss [00:38:11]:
It's a great question. I finished treatment. They said you're in remission, which for anyone who's never had direct experience with cancer, essentially means we can't see any cancer in your body. We don't know for sure whether it's not there, but it looks pretty good, but it's not like you're good. And there's really this. For many cancers, there's this five year period where if you make it past five years, you're probably fine. But for five years after treatment, you're kind of in this waiting game where I would go to checkups every three months or every six months, and they do scans. And it was just this mystery of not knowing what was going to happen.
Jason Moss [00:38:53]:
And I had already relapsed once, so that was real to me. It wasn't like a conceptual thing. So I knew what that was like. And I was very much, for years in this unknown of not really knowing whether I was going to survive this. And yet how am I supposed to live and be a human being and work? And at least for me, I think that that was. You asked the question, like, how do we deal with uncertainty? And I think regardless of whether you're talking about cancer or just being a human being, the commonality in all of our lives is there's so much uncertainty. We have no idea what's going to. And tomorrow or next week or even next minute.
Jason Moss [00:39:34]:
So it's really challenging. And we all experience that in different ways. For me, I think the place that it took me to was. And I wasn't aware of it at this time, but I was searching and yearning for a bigger context for myself that could hold all of that. Because my little humanness, it felt like it was. It was so big and so scary. And so I felt like I couldn't live with that in my small self. So that's what took me into spirituality.
Jason Moss [00:40:03]:
And then I remember reading an article one day about a New York Times article about they were doing all these trials with folks who were doing psilocybin therapy, and they were, I think it was John Hopkins, some of these universities that were doing these trials with folks who were terminal Cancer patients. And they wrote this beautiful article. And there were videos in the article from folks who had been through this. This study and who had taken psilocybin. And they were like, I'm not afraid to die anymore.
Barsi [00:40:30]:
Wow.
Jason Moss [00:40:30]:
And I remember seeing these videos and just feeling like, oh, my God, if I could experience one tenth of what these folks are experiencing, like, what freedom would that be? And I had never done psychedelics before, but that was what motivated me to seek that experience out and to experience that for the first time. And that first experience really changed my life, because it was the first time I experienced myself as something much larger than Jason. And it was the first time I realized that who I am is actually not this body or this separate self that I call Jason, but actually there's something much bigger and much larger that I'm a part of that I'm really one with, and that we all are. That. That's the deepest truth of who we all are. And once I had that, the fear went away. And it's not that it didn't come back, but it was the larger container that allowed me to experience my humanness in this new lens and through this new lens. And I realized that I was so afraid because all I felt like I was was this small, separate Jason.
Jason Moss [00:41:41]:
And when I knew myself as that larger self, I could hold all of that without feeling like I was overcome by it. To answer your question, that was. I think that was what took me into that first real awareness of that. And then once I had that experience, it was like something I couldn't unsee.
Barsi [00:42:00]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:42:01]:
Is the best way to describe it. It's like one. And for anyone who's listening, who's had that, whether it's a mystical experience or you've been meditating or some moment where you come in contact with that, you know, it's something that. That it's so real and so true that you can't ignore it anymore. You can't go back asleep. You can try. You can try to be like, okay, I'm just. What? I don't know what that was.
Jason Moss [00:42:23]:
Let me just push that over there and go back to my life. But you can't. You can't. You can't go back to sleep. So really, since then, it's been, how do I integrate that? How do I. Knowing that that's who I really am, how do I now live in this world and merge these two things together without losing sight of that? And how do I bring that into everything? How do I bring that into the way That I run my business and market and sell and lead and serve and the type of partner I want to be, and the brother and the son, and how do I bring all these things together? That has really been the journey.
Barsi [00:42:55]:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, because I think so many of us have this, like, what I call a gateway moment where we walk through the gates, and for some people, it's yoga for some people, it's meditation. For some. For me, it was a few different times, but one of them was coaching, and then it was Reiki meditation played a part in both of those for me. And psychedelics was it mushrooms for you. For anyone who's not listening, who doesn't know what that term is. Yeah. And it just puts us in touch with something bigger, something bigger than us, something bigger that we're connected to.
Barsi [00:43:29]:
And it's hard to describe those experiences to someone who has never had that experience, because it sounds wild. It sounds bigger than we are, because it is. And it feels like magic. It can feel like magic.
Jason Moss [00:43:43]:
Yeah. I spent years trying to proselytize and, like, you know, talk to my dad about, you know, it's like, you need to do this.
Barsi [00:43:51]:
Oh, yeah.
Jason Moss [00:43:52]:
I learned after a while that I think that is, like, the dowdy Ching says it was like, for those who have not had that experience, there are no words that can describe it. And I kind of gave up after a while on trying to do that. And, you know, I'm here to speak my truth, and I know that we're all on our own journeys.
Barsi [00:44:10]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:44:11]:
That experience is going to happen for different people at different times in different ways. Yeah. I want to give it to everyone, but I can't, you know, especially if, you know, folks aren't ready for it.
Barsi [00:44:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. There's actually a lot of beauty in that, too, in allowing people to find their own ways. When I was doing my Reiki training, my coach, teacher, attunement person, Reiki master, someone asked her a question. I was just listening and essentially like, how do you help someone heal their pain? Is kind of the question. And her answer was so interesting to me because at the time, I didn't get it at all. I was like, how is that your answer? Which was, I would never take anyone's pain away from them. That's their gift in that moment.
Barsi [00:44:54]:
And I was like, what? How is that? What are you talking about? We're here to learn how to heal. And it really changed my understanding of what it meant to be a healer and what it meant to guide someone. If that's what we're doing. It depends. Right. Like what people show up for. Which strangely brings me to a marketing question, because there's this idea of allowing people to be on that journey, allowing people to show up for what they want to show up for, and then finding the space through them making space for us. Right.
Barsi [00:45:33]:
Like whatever that looks like, that relationship, to somehow give them what they need or help them find what they need through them showing up for what they want. And I think that happens a lot in business. It's kind of the way, if you break it apart, it's kind of the way marketing works. And I have to say, you wrote something, once again, I know you through your newsletter. So something that you wrote was marketing is a deep act of empathy and that it's seeing someone where they are and meeting them there. Can you tell me more about how you work with that approach when you're working with the client? Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:46:07]:
I think one of the most challenging things about being, whether you're a healer or you're a coach, you're someone who's providing some kind of service, usually see things very differently than the people you serve do. And what I mean when I say that is like when I work with entrepreneurs, most entrepreneurs, for example, they think they need strategy. Like, that's the thing that's holding them back. It's like, tell me the social media plan or tell me the funnel or tell me the thing. I know because I've been doing this, I've helped over a thousand entrepreneurs at this point. The thing that actually holds people back is almost never the strategy. Strategy is simple. The thing that actually holds them back is everything that we're talking about in this conversation.
Jason Moss [00:46:45]:
It's the deeper, energetic work. It's belief systems, it's mindsets, it's healing, it's the trauma. It's all the things that are holding them back from being able to flow into the strategy fully. Because strategy is really just a container. It's a structure. It's the thing that actually exists within this strategy, which is your life force. That's the thing that actually creates magnetism and makes people want to work with you and want to do business with you. It's not the strategy.
Jason Moss [00:47:12]:
So how do I reconcile those two things in a world where most of the entrepreneurs I work with see their challenges? I just need a better strategy, and I know that that's not what they really need. Well, I have two options, right? I can say this strategy thing is bs. You actually don't need any of that. And just Spend all day talking about energetics. I mean, I've spent time doing that. Part of me is like. Part of me is like, I'm just going to be who I am, and maybe I'll attract the people who already know that, which is one choice you have. Right.
Jason Moss [00:47:42]:
And we can do that. But the other choice is I can say, well, look, I can let go of my frame on the world and I can say, how do I speak to this person, where they are, how do I meet them in the place that they are, which marketing is? That's the job of marketing. It's not necessarily to convince someone of a new way of seeing things. That's what you might do when you work with someone. But marketing is, how do I get my foot in the door so I can actually serve this person to help this person? So the other option is I speak to strategy. You know, I speak to the worldview and the belief system that this person is in. And so I might not talk as much about energetics. I might talk about strategy, and I might talk about the things that they think they need, even though I know that that's not what they really need.
Jason Moss [00:48:29]:
And so it's almost like I've heard it described as like, an ethical bait and switch. It's like when you care deeply about people and it's not about lying or misleading or deceiving people, that's not how I see it at all. I see it as if I really care about this person. I really want to serve them, which I do. How do I earn trust? By speaking into their world in the way that they see it, and then I have permission through that. Because when someone feels seen and where they are, when someone has that moment of like, oh, I feel understood, I feel like you really get me. There's trust that's built through that. And that that trust opens a door for me to invite them into a new way of seeing things that doesn't happen up front.
Jason Moss [00:49:14]:
So this is one of the hardest things in marketing. It's the tension between how we see the world and how the people we serve see their world and being able to find that balance and that integration between those two things. It is a challenging one.
Barsi [00:49:28]:
Yeah, it is. And it's something that I've been thinking about a lot. So it's a conversation that I'm personally curious about exploring more. But I'll share that. Like, for me, again, like, using this relationship we're having right now as a test. When there's clues that we might go in the direction that I'm craving, like, deep down I know that. But maybe let's say I was on a different part of the awareness journey, like, a few years back or something, and I'm kind of, like, wondering if that's true, right? Like, wondering if the strategy isn't what I need. Wonder, like, deep down I want someone to tell me that, like, on a subconscious level, those are the moments when I perk up and I notice that I'm going to take more action.
Barsi [00:50:10]:
Do you leverage things? I feel like you do, because that's what I think brought us together. And I think you actually do way more, like, face forward with the energy stuff maybe, than even the sort of opening the door slightly to it. But what's your take on that? Because tension's a great way to describe that. Of, like, how much do I meet you exactly where you are, but open the door enough to show you that there's another way so that they know that there's, like, a path that they might be deeply connected with. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that subconscious thing.
Jason Moss [00:50:44]:
Yeah, I mean, full transparency. This is something I feel like I'm in process on, too. I think it's an exploration for me lately, I'll tell you, because there was a period of time where I felt like I was this, like, closeted, spiritual person.
Barsi [00:50:58]:
Me too.
Jason Moss [00:50:58]:
Who was just, like, trying to figure out what other people needed to hear. I've let go of that much more and much more. Stepped in this place of, like, what wants to move through me. Like, let me let go of this idea of what do I think other people need to hear? And let me just speak my truth and trust that the right people, the people who resonate like you, who obviously were here, because there was an aspect of my expression that felt resonant for you, that those right people are gonna feel that. And I think in many ways that's kind of an easier way to do it, because there's a lot of weightiness that comes from this sense of, like, what do other people need to say? And how do I intentionally craft this message to meet this person? And when you let go of that, and it's more like, look, I'm here to be a channel. I'm here to say the thing that is wanting to come through. And I trust that there's people out there at whatever level of energy or wherever they are, that are going to hear that and resonate with that to me more and more. That's the place that I'm coming to, which is.
Jason Moss [00:52:02]:
It feels Lighter.
Barsi [00:52:03]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:52:03]:
And it feels easier and it feels like it allows me to just be myself. And it is working. It's new for me. I'll be very honest. Not something I've been doing for years, so. But I see and you know, in threads of obviously, like, us being here is a great example of that. Like, when you reached out to me, it felt good because it felt like, like, oh, yeah. This is like confirmation that this way of expressing myself, that it does create that magnetism and that there are people out there who will resonate on whatever frequency I'm on when I let go of the part of me that's trying to manufacture a message for what someone else needs to hear.
Barsi [00:52:40]:
Yeah, I go back and forth between the two as well. And I feel more in flow when I'm like, expressing in the way that I noticed you were. And then I went a whole 180 on the other side of things for a while just to try it out, because I hadn't in a while. And I was like, maybe there's something for me to learn over here. And it really bogged me down, if I'm being completely honest. And it kind of blocked me. And I kind of just stopped doing things because I didn't know how to do them anymore. And they felt so incongruent to who I was.
Barsi [00:53:12]:
And not to say that those things don't work. And then it's just. Just I had to really do a deep dive on myself and, like, what works for me too. And I'm glad I allowed myself to go on that, like, side quest, if you will, of like, how do other people do this? And maybe I'm missing something here, but just coming back to, like, my own language, if you will, and the way I like to speak on this show, for example, it's the way people already know me. So it kind of started to feel inauthentic to do it suddenly this structured. You know, there's all these books on how to do message and how to do marketing. Like, all of these things. It's not new information, but it did feel like a box I had to stuff myself into.
Barsi [00:53:52]:
And it no longer felt like me or the business I wanted to build. So I appreciate you sharing that so openly because I think it is, like, it's both of those experiences. It can be both. And maybe there's a different time and place for different angles on that. But I love to hear that you're enjoying this version of just.
Jason Moss [00:54:10]:
I'm loving it. To your point. Yeah, it's not A black and white. And I think it's important to remember that as like, if you're running a business, like the business, at least you get paid to help people. And so it's important not to lose sight of, well, how are you helping them and what problems do they have and what desires do they have? And that is how we get paid in business is being able to create that transformation for somebody else. And if I'm completely disconnected from that, people might be like, wow, you're amazing. I love everything you're writing, but they're not going to want to pay me.
Barsi [00:54:43]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:54:44]:
So it is that bridge. It's the balance between the head and the heart is another way of saying it, which is like the dance of life. It's like, how do we hold form without getting lost in it? How do we use structure without feeling imprisoned by it? How do we find this midpoint between the intuitive expression, the life force that wants to come through us, that creates that magnetism and that aliveness and that feeling of like, I feel alive when I am showing up this way, and other people feel that too. Like that's something that can't be contained and put in a box. But how do we have enough of a scaffolding around it so that there's. There's some way of presenting that that also helps someone else see how this is a path to help them get what they want? Yeah, it's a dance. It's a tricky one. It's not an.
Jason Moss [00:55:36]:
And it's a razor's edge, I think, moment to moment of walking the tension between those two worlds and knowing where you are and when you've slipped too far into the intellect versus the intuition. When you're like way off the rails and like intuition land, you're like, I'm feeling myself and everything feels great and I feel so alive. But my bank account has like $10 in it, you know, what do I do with that?
Barsi [00:55:59]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [00:55:59]:
So it's a dance. It's a dance.
Barsi [00:56:01]:
Yeah. And I think that can cause like interruptions in self trust when we like lean into one too far and then we don't get the result that everyone's quote, unquote promises, or let's say someone who's listening to this show and they're like, you don't. I talk about intuition a lot and I talk about serving the you before the do. And like it's really about what we're talking about today and, and making sure that you are serving you before you serve everyone else. And then finding that Balance. But if someone misinterprets that, if we lean too far into just serving ourselves, like you just share it, it can look like low in the result, you know, bag or whatever. And then it can feel like, well, I guess this doesn't work. And then we swing to the other side and then that starts to feel terrible because it'll burn you out.
Barsi [00:56:48]:
If we're always cerebral and we're always trying to fit into someone else's world to help them. And it's like really that razor's edge like you shared. Because also the world and the people in it are changing and evolving and the circumstances are too. So we have to kind of like really understand ourselves enough and the energy enough to tap into when to kind of like shift a little here, shift a little there and know that it will be fluid and then it will continue to kind of shift and change and evolve. And it's a little bit of an experiment, more than I'm comfortable with sometimes.
Jason Moss [00:57:26]:
Yeah, the mind just wants us like, what's the three step plan here? What's the proven strategy that I can follow? Yeah. And I've come to see more and more that actually that dance is even in my experience of it. There's a story that I tell myself about that that's like I'm constantly off the path or I'm veering too far in this direction or that direction. I've come to see more and more that it's all perfect, it's all working exactly as it should. And that actually one of the things that creates this beautiful magnetic brand that feels human and deeply alive and also a business that generates revenue. And it's the dance between these two things. There are periods of time where you're going to veer too heavy, maybe towards one versus the other. But those do certain things for your audience.
Jason Moss [00:58:12]:
They build trust in different ways and they create connections in different ways. And so what might look to me like failure is actually a beautifully orchestrated unfolding that is a part of what makes brands and businesses truly magnetic and special.
Barsi [00:58:31]:
I really appreciate that. As a reframe, it's very easy to feel like, oh, that didn't work, that over there, that strategy or that technique or that marketing thing or that whatever, fill in the funnel, like whatever the business jargon thing here, fill in the blank here, can feel like it's not working, it's not working, or that didn't work. It's so nice to think of it as an orchestration, as something that is part of the bigger picture. Like everything else that we can tap into. And that's an interesting way to think about it, because if we are going to go as far to say that, you know, we're a part of something bigger, then we can't leave out the parts that we feel like should go a certain way. Like, that's got to be part of the bigger picture too. That's connected to this bigger sort of operation. This version of the universe that we're a part of.
Barsi [00:59:20]:
That's part of it too. It's very easy to go like, well, that's over here. And I fucked that up and I didn't do it right. So it's not for me and it's not working for me. But what if it is? What if it's always working for you?
Jason Moss [00:59:34]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. It's all working for us. Even the parts that we don't think are. It all serves.
Barsi [00:59:40]:
Yeah. So how do we take a step back when we're stuck in that scarcity, when we're stuck in that which can bring us to, like, a point of depletion sometimes? Like, how do we step back into this trust and this belief that does allow us to reframe in that way?
Jason Moss [00:59:59]:
Well, it's a practice. And I think for me, it's something that I feel like I. I get right sometimes, and other times I. I really struggle with it. I will say for me, the things that have been helpful, number one, it's awareness. I think that's the foundation. It's noticing what's driving you, which we talked about before. Earlier on in my life, I wasn't aware that there were these deep emotional wounds that were underneath so much of the actions that I took in my business and my life.
Jason Moss [01:00:31]:
And because I had no awareness, there was no choice. And now I'm much better at seeing it. I can feel energetically, like when I'm in a push, I feel what it feels like. And there's a voice in my mind that over time, this is something that I've developed that goes, hey, notice that, like, feel what it feels like in your body right now. Like, are you. Do you feel like you're just rushing to get this thing done? Or there's this sense that you're pushing towards this thing. Or just for me, a lot of it is noticing, like there's this restless energy that's underneath my actions. That's a cue for me.
Jason Moss [01:01:06]:
So I think the first thing is the awareness. It's like we have to have that moment of awareness and then to be able to Notice the patterns, which I think. Think over time, it's like we get better at that.
Barsi [01:01:15]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [01:01:15]:
We notice where we're coming from instead of being driven by it and being unconscious and just. It's like you wake up three months later and you're like, wow, where did the last three months go? I feel like I was just completely asleep. Maybe it's a week or maybe it's a couple days, and maybe it's a couple hours. Maybe it's a couple minutes. And then you notice. So the awareness is the first part. And then for me, what I notice is in the awareness, there's a choice. Right.
Jason Moss [01:01:40]:
How do I get to respond to this? And what I know is my mind's going to tell me to do something that's almost always the thing that I don't want to do. So the mind's going to say, well, you need to work harder. Because if you take time off or if you rest or if you take the afternoon or if you take an hour to just sit with yourself, then blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, everything's going to fall apart then, well, you got so much to do. You got. So it's noticing the story and noticing the part of you that wants to, like, lean in and keep acting out the pattern. And then it's like, there's choice in that because you see it. And then it's like, okay, well, what do I want to do instead? And for me, it's when I notice the restlessness or the anxiety, it's like a cue to step away. It's a cue to stop what I'm doing.
Jason Moss [01:02:27]:
And for me, oftentimes I'll just go lay down in my bed for a couple minutes and I'll put my hand on my heart and I'll get really curious and I'll just ask myself, like, I'm curious, like, what's coming up? And usually what I find underneath the surface is there's some kind of fear. There's some kind of, I'm not enough. There's some kind of. At the deepest level, there's some kind of fear.
Barsi [01:02:47]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [01:02:48]:
And if I can just create space for that part of me to be seen, to be heard, to be witnessed, to be felt, to allow, like, those emotions to flow through me. Then there's a softening. It's not that that part might not be there anymore, but it's no longer driving the bus.
Barsi [01:03:05]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [01:03:06]:
I'm no longer driven by the fear. It's like, okay, it's there. It might be a part of my experience but then I have freedom to be able to respond differently. So we're not taught to do this. It's like our society, our culture, our school system, we don't get taught this stuff. Yeah, but I think that's the journey of shifting these patterns. It's the awareness to be able to notice when they come up, to be able to not do the thing that your mind is going to tell you you need to do, which is some form of avoidance or some form of distraction to stop you from feeling the thing. I think Tara Brock said this is like the most important question to ask is like, what am I unwilling to feel right now? You know, that's the thing.
Jason Moss [01:03:50]:
That's it. It's like, what's the thing that you're. You're avoiding through all this busyness and all this distraction and then the radical act of turning inward to that experience and allowing it to be seen and to be released and to be felt. And that again and again and again and again and again and again and again will change your life.
Barsi [01:04:10]:
Thank you. That's such self compassion that we can express that we most likely don't. Most of us don't have a practice for that, at least on a regular basis. And that's what I'm hearing. The taking a break from the thing. That is something that cerebrally I know and I teach, but like to really put it into play. It's a whole nother. That's a whole nother thing.
Jason Moss [01:04:33]:
It's a tough one.
Barsi [01:04:34]:
It's a tough one.
Jason Moss [01:04:35]:
The more I've done this work, the more I've realized that it is not separate from growing a business. This is not like, woo, woo, kind of like you're gonna do this and then everything's gonna fall apart. This is actually how you experience more success in a very external, tangible, real way.
Barsi [01:04:55]:
Yeah.
Jason Moss [01:04:56]:
This is the thing that allows you to grow a business without feeling like you're a slave to it. This is the thing that allows clients who you love working with to feel magnetized and attracted to you. Because when they experience you, they feel your groundedness and they feel like you're a safe space for them to do their own work. This is not separate from all of the things that your mind is going to say, well, if I do this, then it's going to take me away. There's sacrifice. I can't have that if I do this or this is going to pull me away from that. So I got to keep driving. We can have it all.
Barsi [01:05:31]:
Yeah. Thanks for bringing it back to that because that was my next question was, how do you start bringing this into the sort of desire that an entrepreneur comes to you with, wanting to work on these. Not necessarily those things, because they might not know that. They might. They might not. But wanting to kind of bring in more income. Let's just say, I know you work with entrepreneurs who are trying to reach another income level, or if they've hit a block or they've had a certain level of success, but then taking it to the next. Next goal, whatever that might be.
Barsi [01:06:05]:
I'm hearing that this is the way, like, to help people understand that they can have it all and that it is more about opening up to, oh, have this experience with ourselves in order to welcome in the experience that we want. Am I interpreting that correctly, or do you want to share a little on how you do that?
Jason Moss [01:06:23]:
Well, my fundamental belief is that we already have everything we could ever possibly want. So when I have an entrepreneur that comes to me who's making six figures and I want to make seven figures, my belief is they already are on the deepest level. Seven figures, they have it. It's already here. I think Michelangelo once was asked, like, how did you actually make the statue of David? And he said, I found a block of marble and I saw the statue in that block, and my job was just to chisel away all the things that weren't the statue and reveal the statue that was already there to begin with. To me, that's how I see the journey of growth. It's not an act of addition, it's an act of subtraction. It's the thing you want is already here.
Jason Moss [01:07:12]:
And so if you operate from that belief, then the next question is, well, why am I not experiencing it? And that's a great question to ask yourself, everyone.
Barsi [01:07:20]:
Yes.
Jason Moss [01:07:21]:
Because usually the thing that's going to hold you back from the experience of that is there's some unhealed trauma or there's a story or worthiness or all the things that we've talked about on this call. So that is the real work. So when I'm working with an entrepreneur who wants to grow their business, the business is just a mirror. It's just a reflection. There is no business. It's just you. You think you have a business. Yeah, it's just you being projected onto the screen of life through all these different dimensions you call your business.
Jason Moss [01:07:52]:
So, like, of course, there's things, strategies and things that we might focus on on an external level, but oftentimes those things emerge once we do the work internally to Let go of whatever the blocks are. It's like your mind will figure out the right strategy when you're operating in alignment with the seven figure identity. Let's say, like, when you don't have any of the blocks that are holding you back from experiencing seven figures, your mind will just naturally figure out a way to make seven figures. That's been my experience.
Barsi [01:08:23]:
Bingo.
Jason Moss [01:08:23]:
Like, it's not like, how do I architect the perfect strategy? But I'm still trying to do it from this unhealed part of myself. So I wonder why I can't create it on the outside. It's because you're trying to change the outside without changing the inside. The outside is always a reflection of the inside. So we start with the inside, we shift those things, we let go, we figure out how to chisel away whatever the, the things in the statue that aren't the statue are. And then the outside will naturally emerge and manifest in a way that's in alignment with what that identity actually is. It's a very abstract way of saying it, but, like, it's very practical and it's tangible and it's. To me, it's the only way, you know, I remember earlier on in my life, I remember there were things that I wanted and I remember going out there and trying to get them.
Jason Moss [01:09:14]:
And sometimes I would get them. It was like, I. Maybe it was a job or it was a certain type of client and I'd get the thing. But then I. It was like the next month it would, the client would leave or I'd have a record month in my business. But then the next month I was right back where I started. And for years I was like, what's going on here? Why is it that I feel like I can stumble into this, but I can't hold it? And it took me a long time to realize that it was because I was trying to change the outside with. Change myself.
Jason Moss [01:09:41]:
And whenever your internal self, your identity, your belief system, your energy is not in alignment with the thing that you want, you can't hold it. It can't come into your field. It's not possible to be able to actually sustainably create a certain level of revenue or income. So it really does come back to that inner work. And business is really just a vehicle. You get to work on yourself. And as you do that work, the business will naturally expand as you let go of those layers and of beliefs and stories and the things that are holding you back from the core experience of your own infinite, abundant self.
Barsi [01:10:22]:
Beautifully said. Beautifully said. Thank you for that. Well, how can we connect with you? How can someone work with you?
Jason Moss [01:10:29]:
So you could go to my website, Jason moss.com We've got a really cool scaling guide on there that walks through a bit of a framework for how I help folks scale from the inside out. And so I would encourage you to check that out. We've got our YouTube channel, lots of free content there. You shoot me a message on Instagram or sign up for the email list that Christina has so graciously spoken about on this call. And I love that's really my intimate place where I get to connect with folks and share with folks. I always and encourage people to sign up for that. And if you download the guide, you'll end up on the email list. So lots of different ways we can connect.
Jason Moss [01:11:05]:
And I would encourage you to shoot me a message and say hello. I love getting to hear from folks, especially learning what resonated and what felt aligned from you from our conversation today.
Barsi [01:11:14]:
Thank you for that. And I love scale from the inside. That just it's like the perfect sentence for everything that we talked about today. So just thank you for joining me and for sharing so openly and for going on this. This windy journey on the show today. So thank you, Jason.
Jason Moss [01:11:31]:
Thank you.
